Comments on: Five Lies Fed Us by Organic Farmers http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/ For book lovers, seekers, health enthusiasts and thinkers Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:03:48 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Joanne http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-2575 Joanne Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:59:38 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-2575 Thank you for contributing to this topic, Vickie. Another problem I had with these outrages prices is that they were for the same tired varieties you get in the store, like marketmore cucumbers and Cos romaine. One farmer I noticed who ventured outside the box was selling French filet beans, but for $8 a pound! Thank you for contributing to this topic, Vickie.

Another problem I had with these outrages prices is that they were for the same tired varieties you get in the store, like marketmore cucumbers and Cos romaine. One farmer I noticed who ventured outside the box was selling French filet beans, but for $8 a pound!

]]> By: Vickie http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-2574 Vickie Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:03:38 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-2574 I think you can thank greed for most of what you are speaking of. I am from Southeast Kansas. The cost of organic here is not much different than non-organic, and it (organic) is ALWAYS cheaper from the Farmer's Markets than grocery store produce. I just simply will not buy tomatoes or cantaloupe from a grocery store, (or any produce in season) the tomatoes taste artificial and the cantaloupes have this huge thick green rind that never ripens and very little flavor to the inside. I may as well throw my money in the trash. I would undoubtedly pay more (if reasonable) for organic home grown produce and am sure some farmers take advantage of that fact. Around here most of the ol' timers have always grown their produce organically and don't even think a thing of it. The Farmer's Markets were created to sell the surplus out of their gardens. I suspect what we might have going on is a younger generation coming on the scene looking to make a profit, they are not used to the hard work involved in growing organic........and want to be paid well for it. We grow most of our own, what we don't grow , we purchase at a farmers market, and the bank owns our land, we didn't have anything tossed our way. We made a decision what is healthy and what is not and if we want to eat healthy we will have to grow/raise it ourselves. We give away our extra produce and what lambs we don't put in our freezer, we sell. Frankly, I think part of the reason some farmers charge an ourageous price for organic is because there are people of means willing to pay the high price for it......................like you used to do. When people stop paying the high prices, they will go down, or they will get out of the .....'business'.........and that is all it is to them. I think you can thank greed for most of what you are speaking of. I am from Southeast Kansas. The cost of organic here is not much different than non-organic, and it (organic) is ALWAYS cheaper from the Farmer’s Markets than grocery store produce. I just simply will not buy tomatoes or cantaloupe from a grocery store, (or any produce in season) the tomatoes taste artificial and the cantaloupes have this huge thick green rind that never ripens and very little flavor to the inside. I may as well throw my money in the trash. I would undoubtedly pay more (if reasonable) for organic home grown produce and am sure some farmers take advantage of that fact.
Around here most of the ol’ timers have always grown their produce organically and don’t even think a thing of it. The Farmer’s Markets were created to sell the surplus out of their gardens.
I suspect what we might have going on is a younger generation coming on the scene looking to make a profit, they are not used to the hard work involved in growing organic……..and want to be paid well for it.
We grow most of our own, what we don’t grow , we purchase at a farmers market, and the bank owns our land, we didn’t have anything tossed our way. We made a decision what is healthy and what is not and if we want to eat healthy we will have to grow/raise it ourselves. We give away our extra produce and what lambs we don’t put in our freezer, we sell.
Frankly, I think part of the reason some farmers charge an ourageous price for organic is because there are people of means willing to pay the high price for it………………….like you used to do. When people stop paying the high prices, they will go down, or they will get out of the …..’business’………and that is all it is to them.

]]> By: Joanne http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-2573 Joanne Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:30:46 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-2573 Sally, thanks so much for chiming in. I originally wrote the articles when I was in deep financial trouble and having trouble buying what I normally ate. Then spring came, the Farmers' Market opened, and I was hoping to be able to buy organic produce for a little less than in the store since I was buying direct from the producer, but I found it often cost more than organic produced shipped up from California. I don't think all organic farmers are like this, but they are prone to the same greed as everybody else. It's when they price fix or try to guilt people into buying their pricey goods that I get upset. Naturally, not everybody inherited their farms, but I'm sure many in Oregon (where I was when I wrote this) did. As for deworming, this is the one and only drug I will give my cats, because there really are no decent alternatives that I know of. I would eat sheep that had been dewormed chemically provided several weeks passed between the worming and slaughter. Most important to me is how the flesh was built. Was it built from pelletized feed or grass and supplemental feed? Sally, thanks so much for chiming in. I originally wrote the articles when I was in deep financial trouble and having trouble buying what I normally ate. Then spring came, the Farmers’ Market opened, and I was hoping to be able to buy organic produce for a little less than in the store since I was buying direct from the producer, but I found it often cost more than organic produced shipped up from California.

I don’t think all organic farmers are like this, but they are prone to the same greed as everybody else. It’s when they price fix or try to guilt people into buying their pricey goods that I get upset.

Naturally, not everybody inherited their farms, but I’m sure many in Oregon (where I was when I wrote this) did.

As for deworming, this is the one and only drug I will give my cats, because there really are no decent alternatives that I know of. I would eat sheep that had been dewormed chemically provided several weeks passed between the worming and slaughter.

Most important to me is how the flesh was built. Was it built from pelletized feed or grass and supplemental feed?

]]> By: Sally http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-2572 Sally Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:12:56 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-2572 I'm from the dog list, and I agree with most of what Joanne says. One thing that irks me about organic is that I *can* raise my sheep 'organically' yet my numerous large guardian dogs don't have to be fed organic dog food. Guess what dogs do out in the fields? That's right. They poop. Their non-organic poop washes into the ground, sheep graze. Are the sheep still organic? Animals have parasites. That's a given. Sheep and goat parasites are more difficult to manage, and there's almost no way to manage parasites without some use of chemicals (numerous studies show than diatomaceous earth is not an effective dewormer). I am NOT interested in eating meat from an animal that has not been dewormed . That being said, deworming can be minimized with good management, and good producers pay attention to withdrawal times after treatment. My animals graze on pasture year-round, are fed some hay and maybe corn in winter, and receive no antibiotics in feed - that's as close to organic as I'm willing to be. Farmers have access to fewer and fewer chemicals every year, and are adapting by growing resistant varieties in innovative growing systems. A good example is the orchards in my area moving toward more intensive production that allows more mechanization. Some people might think of that as a negative, but these methods mean less handling by people (and subsequently less chance of illness through poor hygiene) and overall lower use of chemicals. Chemicals are very expensive and most require a license to purchase and use, so producers aren't likely to overuse. BTW...we did not inherit our (100-acre) farm. We bought it (okay, we share it with the bank for now). It's a struggle to stay afloat, and we face constant challenges that make us want to give up. But we don't. It's worth seeing guardian dogs working effectively to control predators, and worth seeing newborn lambs and kids in the fields. It's worthwhile knowing that we're doing the best thing for the ground and preventing runoff and erosion by keeping it in permanent pasture. It's also satisfying to know that our neighbors (farmers and non-farmers) support us. Sally I’m from the dog list, and I agree with most of what Joanne says. One thing that irks me about organic is that I *can* raise my sheep ‘organically’ yet my numerous large guardian dogs don’t have to be fed organic dog food. Guess what dogs do out in the fields? That’s right. They poop. Their non-organic poop washes into the ground, sheep graze. Are the sheep still organic?

Animals have parasites. That’s a given. Sheep and goat parasites are more difficult to manage, and there’s almost no way to manage parasites without some use of chemicals (numerous studies show than diatomaceous earth is not an effective dewormer). I am NOT interested in eating meat from an animal that has not been dewormed . That being said, deworming can be minimized with good management, and good producers pay attention to withdrawal times after treatment. My animals graze on pasture year-round, are fed some hay and maybe corn in winter, and receive no antibiotics in feed – that’s as close to organic as I’m willing to be.

Farmers have access to fewer and fewer chemicals every year, and are adapting by growing resistant varieties in innovative growing systems. A good example is the orchards in my area moving toward more intensive production that allows more mechanization. Some people might think of that as a negative, but these methods mean less handling by people (and subsequently less chance of illness through poor hygiene) and overall lower use of chemicals. Chemicals are very expensive and most require a license to purchase and use, so producers aren’t likely to overuse.

BTW…we did not inherit our (100-acre) farm. We bought it (okay, we share it with the bank for now). It’s a struggle to stay afloat, and we face constant challenges that make us want to give up. But we don’t. It’s worth seeing guardian dogs working effectively to control predators, and worth seeing newborn lambs and kids in the fields. It’s worthwhile knowing that we’re doing the best thing for the ground and preventing runoff and erosion by keeping it in permanent pasture. It’s also satisfying to know that our neighbors (farmers and non-farmers) support us.

Sally

]]> By: Joanne http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-2571 Joanne Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:52:59 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-2571 Okay, I'm girding. Okay, I’m girding.

]]> By: Frances http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-2569 Frances Fri, 07 Aug 2009 04:16:25 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-2569 I'm going to link your thoughts to a LGD list with some pretty fired up farmers who have thoughts on this incendiary issue. Gird your loins! Frances I’m going to link your thoughts to a LGD list with some pretty fired up farmers who have thoughts on this incendiary issue. Gird your loins! Frances

]]> By: Joanne http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-931 Joanne Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:49:17 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-931 And which 2 billion would it be, do you suppose? And which 2 billion would it be, do you suppose?

]]> By: kerry http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-929 kerry Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:11:45 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-929 Joanne - There is SO MUCH good advice here. I know you've linked your article to my Farmer's Market Report, but I'm going to link to it again. There was a really interesting interview on NPR today -The Diane Rhem Show (spelling?) that you might be interested in. Specifically, the comment that got my attention was something like, "if we operated all food production on the organic model, 2 billion people would starve to death." I've not listened to the whole thing, yet. I'll probably link to that as well. I'm still slowly reading through the rest of your series. Joanne – There is SO MUCH good advice here. I know you’ve linked your article to my Farmer’s Market Report, but I’m going to link to it again. There was a really interesting interview on NPR today -The Diane Rhem Show (spelling?) that you might be interested in. Specifically, the comment that got my attention was something like, “if we operated all food production on the organic model, 2 billion people would starve to death.” I’ve not listened to the whole thing, yet. I’ll probably link to that as well.

I’m still slowly reading through the rest of your series.

]]> By: Joanne http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-485 Joanne Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:49:13 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-485 I too often get bogged down in negativity when I look around me, but then I see people who are making changes for the better. Just look at the growth of organic agriculture. It's astounding. People are fed up with chemicals in their food. Now if we could just get them fed up with pharmaceuticals in their bodies. I too often get bogged down in negativity when I look around me, but then I see people who are making changes for the better. Just look at the growth of organic agriculture. It’s astounding.

People are fed up with chemicals in their food. Now if we could just get them fed up with pharmaceuticals in their bodies.

]]> By: Rosemary Bridges http://openmindrequired.com/blog/2008/08/five-lies-fed-us-by-organic-farmers/comment-page-1/#comment-483 Rosemary Bridges Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:08:12 +0000 http://openmindrequired.com/blog/?p=357#comment-483 I totally get what you are saying but I know it is not PC to “attack” the organic market in any way. Fortunately where I live the organic produce is not too bad, I guess because of a Mediterranean climate here in north central California, so we do have a lot of competition at the market. I do agree that if all conventional farming stopped on a dime many would starve, especially sense most have a diet which is mostly GMO corn and soy. With permaculture techniques actually the yield can be much greater without the addition of nitrogen or other fertilizers but I don’t think this will happen because really most people don’t want to go out and work the land for their food. If it does take place I believe it will be out of the devastation of hunger and survival. To me, the whole lawn idea is just insanity. If I did not have to live on rented land I would tear it all up in a minute and put it to some good use. The waste of water and the use of chemicals just boggles my mind and for what? Unfortunately the road to change is usually dotted with devastation and pain and that is what I see ahead of us. I may not live to experience it but my children probably will. Sorry to sound so negative but to me there is just a very bad future looming ahead for western civilization. We do reap what we sow. Rosemary I totally get what you are saying but I know it is not PC to “attack” the organic market in any way. Fortunately where I live the organic produce is not too bad, I guess because of a Mediterranean climate here in north central California, so we do have a lot of competition at the market. I do agree that if all conventional farming stopped on a dime many would starve, especially sense most have a diet which is mostly GMO corn and soy. With permaculture techniques actually the yield can be much greater without the addition of nitrogen or other fertilizers but I don’t think this will happen because really most people don’t want to go out and work the land for their food. If it does take place I believe it will be out of the devastation of hunger and survival. To me, the whole lawn idea is just insanity. If I did not have to live on rented land I would tear it all up in a minute and put it to some good use. The waste of water and the use of chemicals just boggles my mind and for what? Unfortunately the road to change is usually dotted with devastation and pain and that is what I see ahead of us. I may not live to experience it but my children probably will. Sorry to sound so negative but to me there is just a very bad future looming ahead for western civilization. We do reap what we sow.
Rosemary

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